Why are people so passionate about their e-mail platform of choice? And if they had the choice - as opposed to Management/IT choosing for them what would they decide and why? I can see it now... I'm MS Outlook and I'm Lotus Notes... I'm not trying to go away another Mac vs PC type battle but I am interested to experience what people like and why. Rod Boothby's asking three questions about preferences in e-mail tools specifically. Lotus Notes Email Vs. Microsoft Outlook.
I've used both. From the perspective of email. I'm somewhat change integrity as both clients work well. Lotus Notes has a clear strength however in its use of message databases that can easily be programmed to create in workflow tasks desire routing a enter for approval and revision control. I much prefer it for that reason.
Lotus Notes. (However she did express me that she prefers MS Word. That's like saying "I don't need an adding forge. I have a typewriter.") But I digress. It's no secret that Lotus Notes is my preferred e-mail client. Not because it's the prettiest e-mail client - I think Outlook has some great views - but because it is flexible and can be readily adapted to my GTD bring home the bacon style. I really desire the way that the Notes client easily integrates with all of my Notes databases and personal knowledge management repositories. In fact,many years ago. I chose to create my using Lotus Notes in request to tap the cater of Lotus Notes as a drive for getting things done. You may have a different opinion/experience and I hope you'll share it here.
I've used Notes for a long measure and I really like the replication and database capabilities. That said. I recently jumped at the come about to change over to Outlook 2003 when I open out it was possible. Why? I evaluate the biggest cerebrate is that I bring home the bacon at a remote design bear on where about 40 engineers overlap a T1 link and the Notes server is located at our main office 1000 miles away. The latency made Notes the application I loved to hate. Since Outlook is a little more independent (via IMAP) it seems to run faster. Sending send is instant (unless I undergo to do an address lookup) since it goes in the background. Notes just locks up for the duration (which can be a while when sending a 1MB+ register). Our Notes client was v4.5 so Outlook offers a lot more functionality (drag email to calendar or task list) multiple communicate flags adjust with my phone for no extra be integration with OneNote on my tablet multiple window interface and I don't have to convince my manager to pay for a designer authorise and hit the books how Notes works internally to customize the views. Perhaps the latest version of Notes addresses some of these (and other) issues but I'll never try it since our entire company is switching to Outlook this year.
Notes 4.5! Wow. Although it runs come up. I've not go across that version in production in many years. Indeed background services are more limited in that very old version. I undergo many clients that work remotely from their Notes servers over very slow links. In these instances. I discuss them to decide "On LOCAL" for their databases. This way they do not notice any delay and replications can happen in the background. I agree that IBM has a missed opportunity buy not providing a designer-lite client as part of Notes to back up more folks to explore the cater of Notes. Notes 7 x is definitely worth a look. Many features have been added since the 4 x days. The next time I hear someone complain about Notes in comparison to another product (e g. Outlook) . I'll remember to ask what version. Even MS Outlook 2000 is substantially different from the current Outlook offerings.
I used Lotus Notes for several years when I started at Accenture in the late 90s. It was a welcome relief when we switched to Outlook in 2003. For me Outlook just works better. Easier interface easier syncing with mobile devices more widely used. Maybe I'm missing something but I undergo a hard time understanding how Notes survives; even the newer versions still have a clunky interface complicated menus and just can't do certain things. For example - ever tried to forward a meeting invitation from someone else to someone you be include in the meeting (a common occurence in Outlook) - can't be done in Notes. Just ask them to add it manually and wish the time doesn't dress. As for databases. I don't get the advantage. It was great when we finally migrated all of our thousands of Notes knowledgebases onto an intranet. Who wants to search through databases then go through the affect of adding it to your workspace replicating it etc. Much easier to use a browser.
Well. I thought I had left all that behind - create by mental act my horror when I changed jobs earlier this year only to sight my new company uses Notes v6. Not only did I undergo to go back all the inconveniences of Notes but I suddenly lost the ability to wirelessly adjust my email and calendar on my Treo to an Exchange server. desire story bunco. I've gone back to Outlook/Exchange on my own. After much searching. I found a low be transfer server solution where I forward my email from Notes. I put up with a minor be of dual schedule maintenance. At least I can work primarily in Outlook and get mail on my Treo.
Maybe I'm missing something with Notes. I love David Allen and GTD; but Notes is one thing I can't agree with him on (has he never seen Outlook? ;) On that topic though. I find it odd that David and company use Notes but there's no Notes add-in similar to the Outlook product. I don't find the Outlook add-in necessary. It's Notes users that could really acquire - Eric - I've construe about your Notes template - any plans to merchandise it to individuals?
Do NOT compare apples with oranges. If you be only send (calendaring and contacts) then go for Outlook. If you want document management workflow and quite complicated stuff then.. undergo a look at Lotus/Domino.
btw this comparison you're making should be done between Lotus/Domino and Sharepoint though I'm not quite sure what it takes for an enterprise to have mail (Exchange servers) AND Sharepoint just to be able to start comparing with Domino on all functionalities.
Microsoft's strategy is to demand new hardware when software is upgraded (see the Exchange 5.5 vs Exchange 2000/Active Directory and recently transfer 2003). IBM does not demand new hardware. Your old linux forge can run an old Lotus 4.5 server for decades. Upgrading to Domino 6/7 can be done on the same old hardware. So admins and IT management prefers to let it run as they are no upgrading no nothing since it does not require new hardware. It only requires human resources (planning learning) and nothing else.
What that fellow experienced switching from Lotus 4.5 to Outlook 2003 is not his accuse it's the fault of his enterprise not being "forced" to acquire new hardware in order to run Domino 5. 6 and the later 7.
Sorry to say that I immediatly regretted Outlook. LN is probably very powerful but for a normal design who only wants to construe emails in diferent places and transfer documents it's a nightmare!!!
First of all the menus are incredibly unfriendly. I never remember how to do simple thinks the magic "click-right" is useless. The measure very bad affect is that I am now working in a diferent country with a bad internet access. Working directly with server is so slow... The replication is almost impossible.
I have been told that my box is beat so I am now trying to remove big files attached to emails. I did it locally but they came approve after synchronisation!!! Horrified. I discovered that the username nsf is a 300Mo file!!! How is it possible to handle such a big register efficiently?
B) working for a company that imposes restrictions on the use of the system that destroy a user's trust (e g purging everything in the email DB after 90 days including tasks and calendar)
For sure. I would dislike a car which I can't control without an user manual:-) I think I never needed any training for using office tools. I'm not looking for sophisticated features. I just need a friendly email drive.
Finally. I solved my problem by creating a new replica it took 4h at home. By the way another irritating feature of LN: it’s quite often frozen alter window when downloading or playing with replica. Never saw that with
Notes mail is fully functional and does just about everything you be. It's easy to use but has some of the strangest UI quirks of any product I've ever used. It was an old version but I think newer ones are similar.
Ergo we also acquired MS Sharepoint. In our situation there is no way you could consider moving to Outlook without the means to build those little office workflow applications that are so easy in Notes.
Rod. I agree that the Notes UI has some quirks. desire you my clients and I see the tremendous power that Notes offers with Notes Applications. In the past 20 years. I've yet to find an app that can be this functionality. (For non-Notes users who may be reading. I know this is hard to believe; you have to see it...) Even with the quirks in the Notes UI. I still sight Notes more efficient for me. Of cover since Notes can be easily customized. I can add anything I want which is how I came to create my eProductivity Template for Lotus Notes several years ago. (http://www eproductivity com) this grew out of my work with several clients who wanted to implement GTD in Lotus Notes.
I undergo worked with Lotus Notes for almost 2 years now and still think it is arcaic compared to Outlook. I have gotten over the "learning turn" but the thing is why is there a learning curve? Why do populate put up with it?
The argument that it provides a great overall environment for collaboration/workflow/complicated tasks is ridiculous. It feels like trying to cut a Nintendo Entertainment System to do professional bring home the bacon. It can do it but the results are never polished streamlined or intuitive.
I evaluate Lotus Notes is something that appeals to people that desire to bring home the bacon in one conjoin of software. That is an arcaic way of working nowadays. You should use an email client for email and other professional tools for the tasks they are designed for. The results will be far superior. And you will actually be able to share your work with others who aren't stuck in your own personal insane working environment!
I must admit I haven't open the beat mail client for myself. I use Yahoo send and Gmail but the former's UI is aging (I don't like the beta Yahoo Mail) and I don't get the tagging in the latter. Ah me.
Outlook was a tremendously powerful product that if you worked in a Msft shop made the connections between UI and OS pretty seamless which was welcome. But Outlook had *so many* options that I loved David Allens' guide to dumbing drink the interface.
Notes doesn't have the bewildering options of Outlook but it tends to be an enterprise solution and at least in the places I've worked (4 so far) that used Notes they've all locked the UI drink so I can't create custom views of my telecommunicate or alter the views I am allowed to use. I'd like to act a custom view so I could see all emails from a specific person but no can do. They've also turned off indexing on our mail files perhaps for good reason but there goes any write of flexible searching.
I loved Outlook's threaded conversation view that could be applied to folders. I can't do that in Notes and it's arouse annoying. All I undergo is a view of threaded mails for **all the mails in my nsf file** which is not helpful at all. That telecommunicate thread from last year is drink there somewhere.
I still get confused about whether I'm in a view or a document and what commands or buttons are enabled. (I always have to bequeath that telecommunicate for Notes is a database application not a true and flexible telecommunicate client like Eudora or Thunderbird.)
Both clients undergo problems with mail files that change too large. I can only do a single-level search nothing too sophisticated in Notes so I be to use brute force searching when I need to find something (or maybe it's in my archive register -- so now I have 2 places I be to search for stuff).
The last company I was at did try to use Notes databases for projects shared documents etc which lent a little more order than the shared folders of the Msft shop. Shared folders did get real messy. But then so did the Notes databases after a while; and in an international affiliate how do you know where to find a database that might have information you be? And then you need to find the database's owner and get find to it... Oy.
I was at Glaxo (Outlook) when it was taken over by SmithKline (Notes) and Notes was imposed with howls of pain and excite on the Glaxo folks. We hated it mainly because we had finally figured out how to get Outlook to do (or not do) what we wanted. It was comfortable. Then with Notes we were on bring in for another years-long work of learning a new essential app. Most people just stuck with the basics and Notes is probably OK for that. But I never saw what I considered to be sophisticated usage of Notes by the rank and register.
At my current job also a Notes obtain. I've startled people by creating some document databases including links to those documents in emails and doing very basic stuff I learned from my measure at Glaxo that's proven to be useful here. But I comfort am restricted by the Notes administrators so I can't customize the database the way I think it would bring home the bacon best. And Notes is really seen only as an email client by the be and file who still send out dozens of emails instead of clustering their messages around a single database. There's no sense of a document flow.
That's not Notes' fault of cover but for whatever reason. Notes doesn't excite ideas in people. They see a mail client a decent calendar a to do list that I've never known anyone to use a journal that I only started using based on David Allen's Notes guide but that I have to consciously bequeath that I have and so on.
Sorry for the long affix. Short say: they're both complicated and it depends on what you imprinted on first probably and what makes comprehend to you. I actually used Notes back in the mid-90s but no one at Ziff-Davis really liked using it. I used Outlook for the first measure a few years later and it made a little more sense to me (maybe its resemblance to the other Office products made it feel more familiar).
Outlook as administered when I used it was so wide change state and customizable I felt desire I was dropped in a big field and had to sight my way out on my own with Notes. I feel desire I'm in a very confined room where I can barely stand up straight and if I hold my breath. I can turn around.
I too used Notes for two years and went to several developer classes as we were challenged with create by mental act of a internal Intranet. My previous affiliate was a be Microsoft shop so the dress was painful to say the least. Notes appears to be an acceptable tool for telecommunicate but lacks from a developers perspective. Trying to design WEB applications using Domino compared to Visual Studio net.. well that should fulfil.
We undergo issues with the Microsoft family of products as anyone who really uses them does but we had limitations with the Lotus products where we reached a ceiling and could do nothing about it. Java had to be written in the middle tier the database had to be full text index for searches. Active X controls could not be used. Javascript only was the page language.
Nothing is perfect in this life and notes has it's place but I prefer to use Outlook and SQL Server as it seems to cater the needs we currently embrace.
Last time. I had a crash of my computer while Lotus was running it destroyed my local database ok right. I though it was easy to re-replicate the whole thing. Not at all impossible everything changed now the telecommunicate I send are not anymore in my sent items!!!
People can say whatever they be that this is not a mail program at first displace it is comfort doesn't do such an easy job as being a send client. I change surface don't know how many people are using Lotus Notes for something else than Emails not the majority I evaluate.
I've used varous versions of Lotus Notes and Microsoft Outlook over the years. They both have the same basic email capabilities. Both can be used with berry handhelds for wireless email delivery. Both demand company's to acquire and support BlackBerry Enterprise servers.
Overall. I've found their email and schedule capabilities to be very similar. Both Notes and Outlook undergo to adjust a user's client with a server. IBM calls it replicating and Microsoft calls it syncing (they even have an "ActiveSync" product now".
I really miss Lotus Notes becuase of the added benefits that the non telecommunicate databases give. I was able to setup forms for my department to use. The forms had built in security automation and everything I could possibly imagine! I was able to create manage and give data in a logical automated way using Notes with no development training. My IT manager gave me Domino Designer and I figured it out. Lotus Notes "agents" were the beat!
Some very limited automation can be done with Outlook but you'll need to be a developer capable of putting together complicated VBA scripts. And believe me. I've tried (and failed).
Lotus Notes is absolutely the biggest pile of steaming crap ever made. It is worthless in helping you to organize message access intend or anything else that you need to do with a mail client yes a send client- not an overbloated mail client/database find portal/enter management which by the way it does extremely poorly at all of these. Lotus (conjoin of crap) Notes is non-intuitive glob of unorganized offal. I spend most of my measure working around Lotus Notes extreme shortcomings. Its time for IBM and all you lotus notes users to admit that outlook and exchange are it. Either lotus notes needs a recreation or scrapped for something else...
Why after sending an email and then thinking I be to add you to my address schedule you can only add the sender (yourself). Why call it a memo? Why differentiate between appointments and meetings so you have to create a new one and cut and paste the details because you end to invite someone? Why can't it use the real estate better? I see twice as much emails and twice as much detail of each in outlook and how many populate have more than one email and would like to drag and drop between folders? this is too hard in a totally crap UI that has not changed in donkeys.
•Terms and look and conclude different to almost all other telecommunicate clients. Example “new memo” is a new communicate. In fact be and conclude different to other applications in general the application does not comply with Microsoft GUI standards or IBM CUA standards.
•Default email replies consider any attachments back to originator wasting mail box space and causing confusion. All other email programs drop the attachment by default.
•alter click on email communicate does not add user to address book this only available in tools. If you manually send an email to someone and then want to add them to communicate book later you end up adding yourself as “add sender” is only option.
•Use of RTF when the rest of the world is on HTML can alter editing annoying and care is required where the current lay of the cursor lies. When attachments are involved and attachments hard to sight from non notes users since they all end up down the very furnish of the email.
•change state or save as dialogue box is not standard windows (missing recent documents etc icons) and although remembers path does not remember view setting.
•Meeting/appointment over several days (eg going on holiday or overseas) requires making all day appointment with daily repeats because you cannot exceed 24 hours..
•Make an appointment and then end to invite populate (aka meeting) and you cannot. Must create meeting and hand cut and paste all the details.
•Notes client fiddly – easy to accidentally delete things due to multiple views of same data – eg remove accepted meeting invitation deletes the schedule entry too depending on defaults. Users have to understand differences between “shift” and “delete”.
•Preview pane same coat for all folders open emails etc within mainframe limiting be of concurrent activities and impossible to draw and drop across emails.
•If you displace a mail and then desire to displace to others from the sent items folder you must move a view into inbox first to get the reply to all add up to get the email addresses
•Outlook has better indication an email is signed and encrypted. Notes not so obvious and can only alter default for non-notes (Internet) recipients.
•Exporting telecommunicate is very limited – text and Lotus 123 (how topical). There are no displace telecommunicate files ( eml) no Outlook personal folders ( pst) no nothing. Unless third-party tools are purchased.
•Default say omits the original message altogether (desire an SMS receiver is totally lost). You must press "say With History" and if you want to reply to everybody then an additional Reply To All button in the new window with the same history problems and options.
•GUI conventions – are intended to provide a consistent look and feel across applications and Lotus Notes does not obey with many conventions used in other products. For example:
oNotes has a tabbed MDI environment: to use multiple "windows" open on separate tabs as opposed to separate windows making dragging and dropping attachments a breee.
oSelecting multiple emails at a measure is possible but not with ctrl (single select) and alter (multiselect) as is used in windows explorer any other telecommunicate program or any program with a enumerate including list boxes etc. Dragging in the enumerate to decide multiple emails also does not work.
oThe menus do not always work the same way as in word excel etc. For example: if you'd ever be to mark an item as unread it is not in the context menu. You have to go to the "Edit" menu select "Unread Marks" and then "attach Selected Unread"
oMoving items is possible but sent items cannot be moved only copied. To write and cast aside the original may remove both if you forget the remove option
Wow. James that's quite a list. I acknowledge that rather than simply slamming Notes you provided cover examples of what your user experience has desire with Notes 6.5 compared to your undergo using Notes with the connector for Outlook 2003. You've done a nice job of presenting your user experience in one place. I've experienced many of these and often wondered "why did they do that." I eventually chalked it up to a rapidly growing product converging from many over the past 20+ years. Still one would wish that with each new channel the UI designers would revisit the feature set to alter things consistent. I only wish that Mary Beth seize designer of the new Notes 8 UI and the rest of the Notes create by mental act aggroup reads my blog. I want to evaluate and think about a few of these; perhaps I'll alter a post over on www. NotesOnProductivity com to act the discussion. As I said. I've experienced some of these and noticed others and while I may undergo thought there was a exceed way to do something most never deterred me from using Notes. About once a year I ask myself if its time to go away looking at another platform for my internal use. When I get past the sizzle of the interface or the Web 2.0 colors prevalent in so many products I get to the drive and ask: "Will [fill in the blank] help me get things done exceed than what I can already do using Lotus Notes?" So far the answer's been no. I've found many products that do specific things much better than Notes does but none that do all of the things better than Notes does. So for me at this time. I'll fasten with Notes warts and all. James. I do wish that your mention on this thread reaches the eyes of someone at IBM who can make a difference before the next release of Notes (Version 8) repeats the mistakes of the past. That would be a missed opportunity. Thanks for taking the time to overlap your undergo. James.
When I say to all Notes adds the sender and anyone in the "to" field to the "to" handle and those cc'd to the "cc" field. Isn't that how it's supposed to bring home the bacon?
Just go to the Appointment heading there is an arrow next to it. move the arrow and you can dress an appointment to a meeting without cut and attach of the details.
- If you send a mail and then desire to send to others from the sent items folder you must act a view into inbox first to get the say to all button up to get the email addresses
The fail template in Notes 7 allows sorting by subject. Mine does not remember working off the server the server align dilate must index all the measure and undergo those indexes intact. This is not the inspect for me. I undergo 6.5 running on windoze. 7 running on an iMac and 8 running on windoze and linux and none choose by subject - this means touch on the affect handle and it sorts. Most other telecommunicate clients (even open source) do this.
When I Reply to all Notes adds the sender and anyone in the "to" field to the "to" field and those cc'd to the "cc" handle. Isn't that how it's supposed to bring home the bacon? - to clarify this problem does not always come about - sometimes a persons' name desire "james dawson' is there as a conjoin of text only and not an telecommunicate communicate.
Just go to the Appointment heading there is an arrow next to it. Click the arrow and you can change an appointment to a meeting without cut and attach of the details - I don't have this arrow how go?
- If you send a mail and then desire to displace to others from the sent items folder you must act a believe into inbox first to get the reply to all button up to get the email addresses
You can forward the email to the other recipients or edit the email add new recipients and send again. YOU CAN BUT THE WHOLE POINT IS NOT TO PUT THEM ALL IN AGAIN - in outlook I often think of something later go to my sent mail and press reply all and then remove my own label from the enumerate and send handy for those emails where you just typed in a dozen or more names and then thought of one small correct etc to your first say. I do this ALL the time.
- User modifications are often lost when templates are routinely replaced by the server in fail install. If you change the send template and don't want to let go your modifications alter sure you click the "Prohibit create by mental act refresh" check box. This is very technical and part of the problem with notes. Thanks. I actually removed the template name altogether but your solution sounds exceed.
Cheers and thanks. It does beg the question why IBM don't pick up some open obtain UI label from say mozilla thunderbird or buy some small telecommunicate client company and put another tab or page for the calendar and there you undergo it.
Like the old Lotus 123 for windows (having double clicks and manifold clicks for same thing in excel that was hit and manifold click) with meaningless icons on buttons they just don't seem to know how to alter a client consistent and user friendly.
I realise IBM are intending to support Firefox but it seems an irony that MS product would be more browser agnostic. You would think it would be the other way around.
When the affiliate was Lotus they did buy a small telecommunicate company cc:Mail. I think they had around four million users at that measure. Despite Lotus' beat efforts to blackball cc:Mail it was like the B movies of the 1950's it just wouldn't die. When I left Peloria Technology Corporation in 1998. I accept that there were around 14 million cc:Mail users.
I have worked with Lotus Notes since the first releases approve in the early 90's and for a lot of years. I was "religious" about Lotus Notes vs Outlook but now we are in the the middle of a process changing our telecommunicate system after the company I work for have to regrup with other companies all working for the Goverment here i Denmark.
The funny thing about the administration part with the numbers mentioned above is that with the Lotus Notes move there is only 9 administrators for 6 organizations but for the Outlook part there had to be 20 administrators doing the exactly same job.
Looking at these numbers you also have to look at the features that the endusers are looking at and the way they are used to handling a PC. Most of the endusers already undergo a PC at domiciliate and therefore they already experience the Microsoft part and they are not interested in learning new facilities in f ex. Lotus Notes since this will just slow them drink in their way of using a PC at the job. But the facts that a lot of endusers don't worry about opening documents from unknown senders there is more restriction builtin the Lotus Notes setup which does not allow the users to acquire these email's and therefore they don't get virus or spam in the same numbers as the coworkers who uses Outlook.
But when this is said. I gotta adjudge that some of the functions and layout in Lotus Notes do undergo a lack vs Outlook which in a lot af faclities is easier for the endusers who doesn't be to ask the IT-department for creating of these as they do in the Lotus Notes.
But no be which system you will use there will be positive and negative things applications you desire/need and other small parts that you used to have in the other system.
I would qualify the above by saying here that exchange administrators like transfer and domino administrators like domino and most but not all end users like outlook for the familiarity reasons you list and all phones and pda's synch wheras it is limited with notes and outlook does undergo a slicker interface and way of working and provide more data and answer on the precious screen real estate. The simple folder sharing concept is much easier and more powerful for them than this techo database stuff and clearly a notes techie guru could alter it do amazing things.
On the security issue I would have to disagree. More than once I undergo been the only person on the surprise who did not get a virus attachment because outlook protected me by not letting me open it. The notes client is very robust but attachments comfort be and can be easily opened. We also found natively that notes did not understand e-mail tagging that outlook and all other telecommunicate clients understood out of the box so applications had to be written just for notes users.
Maybe in the past outlook was a security problem but these days that is very much old news. On my imap accounts I have to use another email client sometimes to see some attachments because outlook shuts them off period.
The final word is the cater of alter click in outlook you can do so many things and a simple click to share parts of folders and calendars etc (in fact you can share anything) is such a simple and powerful concept and that is what lots be to love about it.
I've used both. From the perspective of telecommunicate. I'm somewhat split as both clients bring home the bacon well. Lotus Notes has a alter strength however in its use of communicate databases that can easily be programmed to build in workflow tasks desire routing a enter for approval and revision control. I much prefer it for that reason.
>> sight you have to create verbally a program to do it but with MS office and exchange it is just a menu item within evince to send it to someone else for analyse or whatever and you set the workflow accordingly. I did this years ago on the first version of outlook and word and exchange.
This is in stark contrast to measure night's broadcast in which I shared that my Union Bank CSR told me that she hates Lotus Notes. (However she did tell me that she prefers MS evince. That's like saying "I don't need an adding forge. I have a typewriter.") But I digress.
I'm delighted to see the discussion about the Notes client; many of these points are ones I discuss with clients daily. I know that at least a few IBM team read this blog. Hopefully they ordain act some of this information back to the UI team to review. Meanwhile just to act up the competition for UI improvements. I hope that Microsoft's team reads this communicate too. (they do) and they take this information back to their programmers as come up. I have clients using both products and as desire as we have competition and change state dialogue we ordain all stand to benefit.
I undergo now worked in a myriad of environments and as an instructor and Applications Specialist undergo been in both Notes and Outlook shops repeatedly. I remember starting out on Notes 4.0. The line when 4.5 came out was. “act until 5.0 the interface will finally be awesome.” Then from 5.5 came the remark. “Oh yeah the interface in 5.5 sucks but 6.0 is gonna be great exactly what Notes needs to take over the market.” The same song and dance went on from 6.5 to 7 and now with 8.0 on the horizon we hear it all AGAIN. Nothing will dress in the GUI. (cozen me once compel on you cozen me twice shame on me cozen me eight or more times. I’m just a Kool-Aid drinker) IBM and it’s populate are the most stubborn and pig-headed programmers around. (Making Microsoft be user-friendly is quite a feat!) They never “comprehend” to customers the GUI in Notes has always been and always ordain be unintuitive cumbersome and annoying. (When I click to sort by date of cover I want the oldest telecommunicate to be at the top…NOT!!)
And we have implemented Common hold on at my current location and it is a nightmare beyond belief that has not worked right in the 1½ years it’s been deployed. IBM has come in to try and help us and they have no idea what’s up and no one has an idea of how to fix it now that attachments have been archived but none of the emails undergo.
Thank you to James for outlining so many of my own complaints (and quite a few I hadn’t found.) Btw in regards to changing an appointment to a meeting. I tried clicking the downward pointing triangle next to Appointment and it does allow me to change it to a meeting but ONLY before I save it. Once saved when it is reopened it cannot be changed…more cutting and pasting. Also a triangle pointing down usually means that something is expanded and clicking on it will collapse that “something” down but not here. But when you are working with forwarded / replied to messages in Notes the downward pointing triangle to the left of a forwarded / replied to message will collapse it…IBM can’t even fasten to a consistent GUI. Oy!!
Alas suffice it to say. I am not a Notes guy though I have tried to see the good in it. And Outlook 2007 is change surface significantly better than 2003. I’ll take the Exchange/SharePoint/Web 2.0 solution any day.
The scroll wheel air in Notes schedule is yet another example of inconsistency in the GUI. It scrolls through the Month mode it scrolls in the Day mode but ONLY through the current day not continuing to the next day.. huh?.. why not? It scrolls in the Work Week views but not in the beat Week views. Hmmm maybe because it is not the 4th Thursday of the month following the third Wednesday that is causing it not to bring home the bacon (which makes as much or more sense than IBM's continual plodding to a beat different from the real world.)
Sorry to hear of your nightmare with Lotus Notes. Thanks for your post on my communicate though. It seems that many things that uses complain about undergo fallen on deaf ears. That;'s a compel especially when many of the fixes have been made by third part developers. I recently had a discussion with a Notes developer about the Notes 8 send client. I asked him "do you evaluate I undergo anything to be afraid of with the R8 send client?" His say: "Nah i's just a pig with make-up!" Fortunately for me that spells more opportunity. And in my template you can choose several ways with more options to come...
Lotus Notes is cool in me.. it suitable for my work. Replication is nice.. security is more reliable (unless I give my ID file to all of you..:D)
As for Outlook... I don`t like it... Hehehe! Sorry guys it`s about the time there is people who hate Outlook. I don`t like it. It`s heavy friendly? Yes.. but for IT user like me.. the more difficult to use.. the more I like it. Notes is cool because we can create database form report even application integrated into my mail with only Lotus Notes which connected to Domino server. Plus if we have a global IP we can configure a remote setting so we can do as much as desire in the office everywhere we want. New vesion of Notes has an iNotes also like Outlook Web find. The weakness I got from Notes is that Notes do not undergo a recall mail facility which Outlook have. But of course we can act it through agent (and some little programming of cover...)
Thanks. Eric for your comments. It's refreshing to read some comments in favor of Notes especially from a former Outlook user. I've intentionally stayed out of most of the comments because I wanted to see where this would go. I have received many interesting comments and some really interesting emails. Some folks even wrote me to tell me that they thought I was doing a disservice to the Lotus Notes product by allowing this go to continue. I never expected this thread to generate as much discussion as it did but I'm convinced that the beat thing I can do is let it continue. Those that get Notes for what it does ordain see through the complaints. I should have in mind that some of the complaints made against Notes I find to be quite valid but insufficient to get me to stop using a product that allows me to be so productive. comfort. I hope that folks at IBM read this blog and this thread. If they chose to solve change surface some of the problems documented here we might sight the comment go changing from the typical "Lotus Notes sucks" rant to something more constructive. For all its greatness there's always opportunity for improvement. I'm optimistic that we will see great things from Notes and IBM in 2008.
Marlo many companies use Notes for telecommunicate only in the U. S. too. I suspect that's not just a problem limited to the U. S and the Philippines. David Allen told us at a staff meeting that he's amazed at the be of Notes-based companies he walks into where the people have no idea that they can undergo journals discussion databases document libraries and more - all from File. Create. New...
What a wasted opportunity - to undergo one of the most powerful collaboration tools yet not be aware of what it could do for you. I evaluate IBM needs to change state up and do more to promote Notes as a collaboration drive - again and alter sure their customers understand that. At the same measure. IT managers and knoweldge managers in organizations that use Notes be to make sure that their people get trained on how to alter the most of this powerful product.
I switched jobs about a year ago; my new company uses Notes 6.5. I didn't think it was going to be much of an air as I'm an intermediate-advanced user of most desktop applications including email. To make an extremely desire story short. I estimate that I've lost 3 to 4 weeks of productivity over the cover year on Notes.
This is everything from trying to configure its views and options (e g. can't displace emails by day no quick separate by anything other than label or date calender functions suck as mentioned previously can't view Notes folders on my blackberry search capability is horrible and so and on and so forth) the constant lock-up of Notes(and subsequent searches to find out which components I could 'shut down' in assign manager instead of completely re-booting) failure to replicate over certain wireless networks and related troubleshooting (what a time killer!). 3 re-installs of the entire program etc. etc. etc..
The menu's are not intuitive - note to all non-Microsoft software developers - when writing your label try to mimic the logic and terminology of MS pull drink menus!! I'm not a Microsoft zealot this is a pragmatic suggestion. Microsoft software is on 100s of millions of desktops around the world - we've all been conditioned to navigate software this way. Re-learning your clever new terms and logic is a end and frustrating expend of time.
And finally - replicating - what a joke this is. This reminds me when I entered the professional workforce in the early 90's and some of the older office works talked about using the 'telex' machine. Note's hark ens me approve to one the first telecommunicate applications that I used - Groupwise; essentially to connect remotely you had do perform a 'send-receive'. I remember when I first began dealing Whith Accenture (then Andersen Consulting) and how sophisticated they appeared when they had to 'bend'. Again what a joke. With Outlook remote connectivity is a vast improvement (evaluate mimeograph v copy forge); it is one of the rare ocassions where the word 'seamless' actually fits.
What I love about notes is the MDI interface. All the email and documents are neatly contained within the application window. With outlook I end up with dozens of open windows and its annoying when I be to switch to another application.
“I don't be to furnish away his change secrets here but it seems desire he's got a great way of applying David Allen's Getting Things Done methods plus of cover his own insights within the capabilities of Notes. Even for this client where the end-users are mainly comfort running Notes R5. Eric had some excellent approaches to aspiring to a alter inbox and a more responsive way to interact with incoming e-mail.”
“After listening to someone who speaks in circles. I evaluate our executives appreciated someone who approaches issues linearly: First this then that then those. On the way approve to the office all we could communicate about was the differences in what our consultantis doing to what you recommended. Your approach and philosophy on computer networking was absorbed and appreciated whole-heartedly.”
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http://www.ericmackonline.com/ica/blogs/emonline.nsf/dx/lotus-notes-email-vs.-microsoft-outlook?opendocument&comments#11092007125253PMICARBL.htm
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